Character Creation Question

First off, awesome site and I love what you're doing. Also, I'm sorry if this is in the wrong section but since it deals with character creation, I placed it here.


I would like to get some LoTR games started (I'm currently GM'n DC Heroes, Star Wars and All Flesh Must Be Eaten), because I absolutely love J.R.R Tolkien's works and I know, playing this genre would be absolutely fun.

However, with that said, I'm having some major difficulty learning the character creation part. It seems the book is all over the place and doesn't clearly detail what needs to be done and when (unless I'm losing it in the text).

I read the official character generation summary but I'm still having difficulty grasping the concepts and I was wondering if someone would be willing to answer the following? The steps are taken from the Official Character Creation Summary.

1. Choose a race and sub-race.

I don't see sub-races listed for the dwarf except in the background package. Are there individual racial modifiers listed somewhere other than there as there are for other listed races?

2. Choose your character's racial skills and traits. Pick six from skills and edges.

Is this six total and in any combination I wish (eg., 4 skills and 2 edges) or is it strictly 6 skills and if I wish to have an edge, I must select a drawback as well?

3. Select your character's native languages and lore (pg. 60) by multiplying his Wits by three and assigning the total to Language and Lore skills related to his race, culture, and background.

Language and lore is part of the skill set I'm allowed to select from and I'm not sure if selecting the race's common language and lore goes against the total from Question #2. How is this handled?

4. Select 15 ranks of order skills (none greater than +3), and then add another five ranks to any of these skills.

Ok, I understand the jest of selecting an order, which is the same as selecting a "class" in other systems, however, other than the additional 5 ranks to those skills, does the character receive additional bonuses for staying within their selected Order when advancing in levels and taking additional ranks within their "favored order skill set"?

5. Calculate the character's secondary attributes (reactions, defense, health).

Since I'm assuming you only use the modifier of whichever primary attribute is higher (listed in table), what do I do in the event both have zero or negative modifiers?

Sorry for the length but I do appreciate all help provided. I will most likely have more questions as I further test the game out lol.

Ok I'm going to help you as much as I can.

1. In the Core Rule Book there are no sub-packages for Dwarves. All Dwarves get the same modifications.

2.I believe this is in any combination you wish. But the rule, for only being allowed to start with 4 edges normally, still applies.

3.The native languages and lore are not taken from the normal 6 picks but only from your wits times 3.

4. First of all it costs less advancements to gain higher order skills and you can not be gaining ranks in three or more orders at a time.

5.If your highest attribute modifier is 0 then your secondary attribute is 0. If your highest is for example -2 then your secondary attribute is also -2.

I hope this helped and answered all of your questions.

Thanks Pallandir, your answers helped a great deal!

It's a shame the core is so bland and unorganized with this portion. But then again, I'm sure once you learn what to do, creating those characters become a breeze.

Again, thank you!

Ok, your explaination regarding the combination of skills and traits makes sense and I thought it cleared it up, and sorry to beat this dead horse, however it's still not adding up as per the way the rules are written and unfortunately, it's compounding my confusion. Where in the core does it specify the character's can only start with a maximum of 4 edges? I searched and could not find it.

I may be getting confused because of the wording used in the core. Are "picks" referring to "points and / or ranks"? If you follow the character creation example on page 73, you see that player #1 chooses 5 skills in total for a total of 6 skill points and player #2 only selects 4 skills with a total of 6 skill points, yet, on page 112, it shows them selecting one edge with player #1 selecting 2 more edges based on his 5 free 'picks' (which leads me to believe edges cost one point / "pick").

So, does a player create their character choosing 6 "picks / points" of skills and 1 free edge? If it's a combination of 6 skills and traits total, why does player #2 only select 1 edge after only choosing 4 skills? Wouldn't that mean he's giving up a free skill / trait?

Thanks for the help, it is much appreciated while I learn this system!

I dont have my book with me at the moment I think it mentioned that at the beginning of the 'orders' chapter. I can't help you with the others yet because I will need time to flip through the book myself.

I appreciate you taking the time to look. If I can get over this, I think the rest of the rules will be walk in the park lol.

Did you find the rest out on your own or do you still need help? I finally have some spare time.

Hey Pallandir,

I searched online and reread the books, but I could not locate anything that thoroughly explained this and became too frustrated during character creation and decided to wait to see what you had to say about this.

I have a few people asking me to run the game, but I fear that if I refer them to purchase the books and they have the same issues that end in the same frustration with very little online information to clarify the discrepancies, they'll never trust my judgement or play in my games again lol. That's why I'd like to know all the in's and out's before actually running the game.

ok so could you please re-post everything you need now so i can be clear on everything you need.

Pretty much what I posted in my reply above, but I'll copy and paste it here as well.

I may be getting confused because of the wording used in the core. Are "picks" referring to "points and / or ranks"? If you follow the character creation example on page 73, you see that player #1 chooses 5 skills in total for a total of 6 skill points and player #2 only selects 4 skills with a total of 6 skill points, yet, on page 112, it shows them selecting one edge with player #1 selecting 2 more edges based on his 5 free 'picks' (which leads me to believe edges cost one point / "pick").

So, does a player create their character choosing 6 "picks / points" of skills and 1 free edge? If it's a combination of 6 skills and traits total, why does player #2 only select 1 edge after only choosing 4 skills? Wouldn't that mean he's giving up a free skill / trait?

Basically, what I need is that explained so it actually makes sense. Because I'm not following the "pick 6 from the skills / traits list" especially with their math.

Have you taken a look at the errata, Cryotech? There's a lot of it! That might clear some things up for you. I find using the order packages helps with most of these questions (and speeds things up too). I'm about to head off to class right now, but I'll look over your question a little later and see what I might be able to help out with as well.

P.S. The errata should be on the Archives website somewhere...the file is called 'Official Rulings' (if you didn't know that existed, there's a link on the bottom right of the portal screen).

Hey Celegorn,

A couple days ago I did, and there is something about those figures regarding the Edge need to be changed, but too be honest, I still can't grasp what they're doing and how they're achieving what they are achieving. Especially when you try following the core, editing as per errata and comparing what you're doing, what they (the examples), just did to the character archetypes already created. t just doesn't add up, at least to me.

I definitely must be missing something lol.

Okay, I read through the forum and I think I might be able to answer your questions.

First, ignore the examples. They create too much confusion. Some of them use older rules they didn't bother to update to the system actually found in the book (even the Star Wars Saga Edition rulebook suffers from similar mistakes if you dig through the stats). The errata tries to fix these as much as possible.

Next, use the character packages wherever possible. These packages were meant to speed up the character creation process and most characters players would want to make are represented.

If that's not satisfactory and you want greater customization, then take note of the following. Picks are indeed "points" distributed on a one for one basis. 1 pick = 1 skill rank or edge. Each race and order lists what skills/edges are available to them respectively. Racial Skills are handled first. You receive 6 picks. These are distributed between skills AND edges; once again, on a one for one basis. More edges and skills can be purchased by acquiring flaws with the continuing theme of 1 flaw for 1 pick (during the process of recording your racial skills/edges, most narrators limit flaw acquisition to one). Be sure to keep in mind the restrictions set by the race. Then, move on to the order skills. Select 15 ranks of order skills (none greater than +3 from your 15. It's fine if the ACTUAL ranks are more than that because of racial skills), and then add another five ranks to any of these skills. Then, you get 1 free edge from your order chosen from the list given (you'll find this toward the beginning of the entry if you're not choosing an order package). At this point, the player can gain, what's been universally accepted as, up to three additional flaws to gain either addiotnal skills or edges. FINALLY, after all of this is done, you have 5 free picks that MUST follow the rules for advancement picks, the table for these are found on Table 11.1, pg. 278 of the CRB. The only limitation is that the characters CANNOT gain additional order abilities with these picks. I also like to limit my players to 4 or 5 total edges, so as not to go too over board with them.

Don't forget that all Language and Lore skills are gained during the RACIAL step and are determined by multiplying the characters Wits by 3. These picks are completely INDEPENDENT of the others. An additional note, to speak a language like a native the character needs at least 6 ranks in that language.

Buying a specialty in a skill, such as Armed Combat: Blades (longsword), adds a +2 bonus with that skill. See the Skills section on page 116 for further information on specialties. Upon reaching a skill rank of 6, 9, and 12, combat skills gain a +1 bonus to accomplish one of the combat maneuvers, listed on pages 227-30, using a weapon with which you have a specialty.

Okay, That's all I can think of...let me know if that isn't sufficient, and I'll try and see how I can rephrase things. I'll also be happy to answer any additional questions you might have. If you follow that summary sheet, and leave the examples be, you should be fine.

An additional thought, if you want some good examples, the pregen characters in the Archive should be correct to all rules (as that's what I tried to do, though I'm not infallible).

Well, you have explained it better than I could have... even reminded me of a few things.

Nice! Thanks for that outstanding explaination!

That completely clears up my confusion. I took your advice and basically threw the blasted examples out the window. Now all I have to do is finish reading the core, play test it a bit to familiarize myself with the rules, and create my campaign for my players

Thanks a million for your help!

No problem. Feel free to ask any other questions you have. My nerd knowledge knows no bounds.